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When can we expect Fabrik not to be dependent on MooTools
- Thread starter hdwebpros
- Start date
felixkat
Senior Member
From what I know it won't be happening in the current version but probably in Fabrik 4 which is a long, long way off.
It's not something that can just simply be replaced. Every element, form, list & visualisation plugin uses MooTools code. Then there are the thousands of users out there who have their own custom MooTools scripts.
What are the main reasons for you removing Mootools?
It's not something that can just simply be replaced. Every element, form, list & visualisation plugin uses MooTools code. Then there are the thousands of users out there who have their own custom MooTools scripts.
What are the main reasons for you removing Mootools?
J3 explicitly does not provide default support for MooTools, instead switching to jQuery. It is killing MooTools off, for good reason.
My reasons
My reasons
- I'm not a big fan of loading 2 large JS libraries, especially when it isn't needed.
- I don't like conflicts
- MooTools is very antiquated
- I could list 4 other reasons as well
felixkat
Senior Member
Well MooTools is used for Fabrik so it is something that is needed. There shouldn't be any reason for conflicts everything should play nice. If a conflict occurs then it's not necessarily a Fabrik issue, if it is though it will be looked at.
MooTools has taken a downhill slope recently but during Fabrik 3 development, which was pretty much based on the 2.5 code, it was very active. Many changes that happen in the Fabrik 2.5 code is adapted for V3 and vice versa. This would cause huge problems and would be practically impossible if they were running different JS frameworks, (at least from a resource point of view).
Fabrik is tied so deeply with Joomla, probably more than any other product, that even simple Joomla updates can break things from time to time. Maintaining a couple of different forks, development of Fabrik 4 and building the new JED system takes enough time as it is for the two main developers.
Forks are always welcome if somebody want to get a team together to eliminate MooTools. Alternatively a large donation or group funding could do it as well.
Either way though it would probably be a rocky ride. Joomla took forever to upgrade MooTools back in the day despite most components and templates using them. This caused big problems in Fabrik to the point where a "MooTools Global Option" had to be implemented, to cater for both versions.
Now we are in a situation where we have MooTools, Jquery & Bootstrap. We also are using requireJS to enable everybody's sites to work correctly and for better code firing on complex forms. The Bootstrap version Joomla is using is, as you put it, antiquated, it is no longer supported. Already we have people asking about using V3 but again this will cause problems being integrated heavily with Joomla and would need a global option. It is unlikely Joomla will upgrade bootstrap until Joomla 4 so again the same ol' problems.
What most people need to appreciate is that Fabrik is nobody's full time job, the main dev's have other work to pay for the rent. Anything that requires a major change or code rewrite simply isn't going to happen overnight.
The only suggestion if size is causing you a problem is to tweak the code where you see fit. In some scenarios you may not have to load Mootools at least in List or Detail view.
MooTools has taken a downhill slope recently but during Fabrik 3 development, which was pretty much based on the 2.5 code, it was very active. Many changes that happen in the Fabrik 2.5 code is adapted for V3 and vice versa. This would cause huge problems and would be practically impossible if they were running different JS frameworks, (at least from a resource point of view).
Fabrik is tied so deeply with Joomla, probably more than any other product, that even simple Joomla updates can break things from time to time. Maintaining a couple of different forks, development of Fabrik 4 and building the new JED system takes enough time as it is for the two main developers.
Forks are always welcome if somebody want to get a team together to eliminate MooTools. Alternatively a large donation or group funding could do it as well.
Either way though it would probably be a rocky ride. Joomla took forever to upgrade MooTools back in the day despite most components and templates using them. This caused big problems in Fabrik to the point where a "MooTools Global Option" had to be implemented, to cater for both versions.
Now we are in a situation where we have MooTools, Jquery & Bootstrap. We also are using requireJS to enable everybody's sites to work correctly and for better code firing on complex forms. The Bootstrap version Joomla is using is, as you put it, antiquated, it is no longer supported. Already we have people asking about using V3 but again this will cause problems being integrated heavily with Joomla and would need a global option. It is unlikely Joomla will upgrade bootstrap until Joomla 4 so again the same ol' problems.
What most people need to appreciate is that Fabrik is nobody's full time job, the main dev's have other work to pay for the rent. Anything that requires a major change or code rewrite simply isn't going to happen overnight.
The only suggestion if size is causing you a problem is to tweak the code where you see fit. In some scenarios you may not have to load Mootools at least in List or Detail view.
I am in complete agreeance, the less libraries, the better. I've also talked with PLT members and are plotting removing all MooTools dependencies. I recently have read and watched content on not using JQuery!
I understand your frustration with the CMS changing gears. Especially when you plot such a hunk of code around something that gets changed. It feels like no one wins at times.
Hopefully Fabrik4 is just jQuery, and you'd think that would be the defacto for a long period of time. Bootstrap and MT are shaky JS libraries moving forward. That's just my $0.02.
But, lastly, I want to make very very clear, is that I truly appreciate anyone who volunteers any time towards any project that helps Joomla!. Co-organizing Joomla Day MN has humbled me. Some people are very selfless and give so much back to Joomla! that I am awestruck sometimes. So, any volunteers on this project, thank you
I understand your frustration with the CMS changing gears. Especially when you plot such a hunk of code around something that gets changed. It feels like no one wins at times.
Hopefully Fabrik4 is just jQuery, and you'd think that would be the defacto for a long period of time. Bootstrap and MT are shaky JS libraries moving forward. That's just my $0.02.
But, lastly, I want to make very very clear, is that I truly appreciate anyone who volunteers any time towards any project that helps Joomla!. Co-organizing Joomla Day MN has humbled me. Some people are very selfless and give so much back to Joomla! that I am awestruck sometimes. So, any volunteers on this project, thank you
rob
Administrator
Fabrik4 will not use mootools. We're debating if we are going to use angular.js at the moment, as its two way data binding model and use of directives are something we are really interested in.
Personally I love mootools - its a superior code base to jQuery, it just lost traction and most J devs just want to drop in a slider or widget written by someone else and that tends to mean something written off jQuery.
We will also be dropping the use of requrie.js, as whilst the asynchronous loading is great, I haven't been able to find a good fit for r.js (require.js's concat and compress service). We will be replacing it with browserify, which uses the common js module format. The upstart of that is that we are going to be able to build our js files and serve one or two files for any given page, which willconsiderably improve our page load times
The offshoot to these changes is that we may well not port all our current 3.x plugins to Fabrik 4 for an initial release, as some of them are not often used, and we would prefer to prioritize of those which are used, making them as stable as possible before tackling the more esoteric plugins
Personally I love mootools - its a superior code base to jQuery, it just lost traction and most J devs just want to drop in a slider or widget written by someone else and that tends to mean something written off jQuery.
We will also be dropping the use of requrie.js, as whilst the asynchronous loading is great, I haven't been able to find a good fit for r.js (require.js's concat and compress service). We will be replacing it with browserify, which uses the common js module format. The upstart of that is that we are going to be able to build our js files and serve one or two files for any given page, which willconsiderably improve our page load times
The offshoot to these changes is that we may well not port all our current 3.x plugins to Fabrik 4 for an initial release, as some of them are not often used, and we would prefer to prioritize of those which are used, making them as stable as possible before tackling the more esoteric plugins