YesNo-Field - "No" is nor checked

[kissinger]

The Fabrik element yesno, if ?Yes?, works nice (the "Yes" - option buttons is checked, the other is blank, as expected); but if the option value is ?NO? both the option buttons are blank;

Check please!

 

[Bauer]

I have the same issue.

I wouldn't do anything in fabrik until someone acknowledges that there are major issues introduced in the last 'update'.

Everyone seems pretty mum in responding the past few days so I assume they are aware and 'working on it'.

I just tested again - tried adding a checkbox in a repeat group and it does not get added as part of the linked group.

If I add by selecting the linked group, it only shows in the linked group - but neither yes nor no is activated -and when I go back to look at the elements in the repeat group it was not added there at all.

I have another form where it used to work but is no longer working. In this case the parent group is showing the YesNo element as unselected (and does not even include it in the $_POST data). In that form there is also a yesno element in the repeat group - and that is showing and working as expected. Go figure.

 

[Sophist]

I am having the same problem. I have submitted a fix for this PR-800 which seems to now display the No values - but they are in Red rather than Green which is another problem to track down.

 

[Sophist]

I wouldn't do anything in fabrik until someone acknowledges that there are major issues introduced in the last 'update'.

If we all took that view, then these things would stay broken.

And this is a beta - so it is subject to significant changes, which might break things - if you don't want to live with the characteristics of beta software, use a release version like 3.0 instead.

Everyone seems pretty mum in responding the past few days so I assume they are aware and 'working on it'.

Assume away, my friend. Assume away.

I have another form where it used to work but is no longer working. In this case the parent group is showing the YesNo element as unselected (and does not even include it in the $_POST data). In that form there is also a yesno element in the repeat group - and that is showing and working as expected. Go figure.

Well, some of us actually do "go figure" and then fix it.

If you are interested in why it works in Repeat Groups and not in non-repeat groups, go read my fix in PR-800 and then think about why empty my return true for a value of "0", and false for a value of array("0","0"). Debugging and fixing this stuff is not rocket science - but it does take perseverance.

 

[Bauer]

Allow me to respond to your ludicrous reply, Sophist.

So you?re suggesting that when I come across some bug as destructive as what we have in this update, it is not something I should warn users about? If I didn?t know better and realize what was going on, I could have continued ?working? with fabrik and destroyed months worth of my hard work. My element and groups tables would have been a confusing mess. I didn?t want to see that happen to other members of this community.

You should be thanking me for doing so, not condemning me. Because you see, while you and the rest of the fabrik team were enjoying your weekend or ?holiday?, I was still working hard at my project ? including trying to figure out these bugs and checking in here to see if other members of the community were experiencing the same issues.

And you assume that anyone who comes up against a bug like this should just fix it themselves and quit whining?
I didn?t introduce the bug ? and I?m not about to fix it.

If anyone of the fabrtik team was aware of this bug there should have immediately been a big notice at the top of the forum ?DO NOT USE THE LAST GITHUB UPDATE ? WE ARE WORKING ON RESOLVING ISSUES INTRODUCED? ? AND you should have changed that update and reverted back to the previous version immediately, so no further downloads could be made.

I don?t give a rat?s *ss if this is beta software or not. Users should not be expected to fix bugs introduced in the latest release. Report them, yes ? fix them ? not so much.

I have YET to see anyone at fabrik ever apologize for the headaches they have caused me over the past year of using this beta product. This is yet another one of those instances that has me wondering if these bugs aren?t being planted intentionally with the hopes of getting users to pay for support. So not only am I expected to fix the bugs introduced, I should pay for the privilege of anyone at fabrik to even acknowledge their existence?

OH and BTW ? someone might want to check element.php and list.php for the missing lines that were inadvertently removed in that last few updates that is causing these errors?
PHP Notice: Undefined variable: othertables in /home/public_html/administrator/components/com_fabrik/models/element.php on line 765
PHP Notice: Undefined variable: keydata in /home/public_html/components/com_fabrik/models/list.php on line 4077

 

[Sophist]

Allow me to respond to your ludicrous reply, Sophist.

Not sure what was ludicrous about it. A lot of us are wholeheartedly sick of your unrealistic expectations, your unwillingness to contribute and your persistent griping.

So you?re suggesting that when I come across some bug as destructive as what we have in this update, it is not something I should warn users about?

Not at all - as I have said before, I have no problems about you reporting issues you find. It is not a problem if you just report the symptoms, as that warns others that this is a fabrik problem and not something they are doing.

But it would be better still if you provide all the information that you can to help others fix it.

And better still if you tried to fix it yourself.

You should be thanking me for doing so, not condemning me.

I do thank you when it is appropriate. But I will also point out when you are being particularly stupid or crass or insulting.

Because you see, while you and the rest of the fabrik team were enjoying your weekend or ?holiday?, I was still working hard at my project ? including trying to figure out these bugs and checking in here to see if other members of the community were experiencing the same issues.

Well - that is another insult to various people.

I am not a member of the fabrik team - I am a user like yourself. If I was providing paid support to you and it was outside the support service level, then you might have a legitimate complaint. But since I am not, there are no grounds for such a comment from you.

I also know that Hugh was working on bugs over the weekend. Some of which were for bugs experienced by people who don't pay for support like you and me. So your ignorant comment is an insult to him too.

And I can only assume that you have no experience of the real-world of commercial software support - most paid-for support contracts are M-F, 9-5, and if you want support at e.g. weekends, you pay extra for it - a lot extra. Yet you believe that you are entitled to get priority support 24x7 for free!!!!

And you assume that anyone who comes up against a bug like this should just fix it themselves ...

No - as I have said in other posts:
1. You need to have more realistic expectations of free open source software, unpaid support and quality of beta software; and
2. You have a choice about what you do when you experience a bug i.e. wait patiently for it to be fixed (maybe never), try to fix it yourself (and if you try, then other people are much more likely to help you), switch to a non-beta version of Fabrik, or use something else.

... and quit whining?

YES!! Now you get it!!

I didn?t introduce the bug ? and I?m not about to fix it.

Well, that pretty much summarises your attitude of blame and selfishness.

If I had taken that attitude, then you would not have had the benefit of the fixes I did for problems that you were experiencing.

If anyone of the fabrtik team was aware of this bug there should have immediately been a big notice at the top of the forum ?DO NOT USE THE LAST GITHUB UPDATE ? WE ARE WORKING ON RESOLVING ISSUES INTRODUCED? ? AND you should have changed that update and reverted back to the previous version immediately, so no further downloads could be made.

Perhaps. Assuming that they were aware of how many issues were introduced.

Or perhaps you should be more mindful of what beta software means - and not upgrade your site without having taken a backup and done some testing.

I don?t give a rat?s *ss if this is beta software or not.

Temper, temper.

Users should not be expected to fix bugs introduced in the latest release.

As I have said multiple times, users are not expected to fix bugs in open source software. Just as paid support people like Hugh and Rob should not be expected to fix bugs for free for people like you and me. That Rob and Hugh do fix bugs for us for free, is a bonus. But in general, open source software is expected to be supported by its users.

Please explain just why you think users should not help fix bugs in open source software?

... latest release.

What release?

This is a beta pre-release which is having patches made available if anyone wants them. If you want a version of Fabrik which is a release, then that would be Fabrik 3.0 not a beta.

I have YET to see anyone at fabrik ever apologize for the headaches they have caused me over the past year of using this beta product.

Well, I have seen them apologise. And I have apologised myself when I have got things wrong.

The one person who I have yet to see apologise for throwing insults, blame etc. is you.

This is yet another one of those instances that has me wondering if these bugs aren?t being planted intentionally with the hopes of getting users to pay for support.

Another insult - this time against the integrity of Rob and Hugh.

But I suppose you expect that they should just swallow these insults, turn the other cheek and treat you as if you were paying for Pro support? Well if you were a paying customer, maybe they would need to do this, but you aren't, and I can only admire them for their restraint.

So not only am I expected to fix the bugs introduced, I should pay for the privilege of anyone at fabrik to even acknowledge their existence?

At last. You have finally got it!! This is the essence of Open Source software.

What I can't quite understand is just why you think that, when you get this software for free (i.e. nothing, gratis, no charge, no cost, free, free, free), you should automatically be entitled to the support you might expect if you had paid for this as a commercial product?

As a long-time IT person, I can tell you that since you have used this for over a year, if this was a commercial product you would have paid several hundred or even thousand pounds for the initial license, and then paid a monthly support cost on top. And this money you would have paid would have been invested in staff who would give you support against a service level.

You still have the option of paying for support, and I know from experience that paying users do get priority for Rob and Hugh's time.

OH and BTW ? someone might want to check element.php and list.php for the missing lines that were inadvertently removed in that last few updates that is causing these errors?
PHP Notice: Undefined variable: othertables in /home/public_html/administrator/components/com_fabrik/models/element.php on line 765
PHP Notice: Undefined variable: keydata in /home/public_html/components/com_fabrik/models/list.php on line 4077

Well - again that pretty much sums up your attitude. Rather than logging these as issues here in the forum or on the GitHub issues log where they might be visible to Rob and Hugh, instead you bury them at the bottom of another of your rants which really is not very helpful.

S

 

[cheesegrits]

Paul,

And now you know why I ignore certain threads, unless they consist of a simple "here's a bug, here's the symptom / error msg". I'm not going to read through pages of rant to find a nugget of actual bug report.

You seem to be at the point I was with Bauer a year ago. I had to give up interacting with him, as (seriously) it was messing with my blood pressure and my head. I also told him that obviously Fabrik wasn't a fit with his requirements / expectations, I couldn't provide him with support any more due to "irreconcilable differences", that he'd upset all of our Wiling Volunteers who help out and were no longer prepared to help him (which he appears now to have done with you as well), and he really needed to go and find some other solution / product.

I went from looking forward to work every day, seeing what new and interesting challenges awaited me in forum support that day, to dreading opening my browser in the morning, because it meant more of the same nastyness. Just wasn't worth it, so I quit reading anything he posts. Probably means I miss a lot of bug reports, but it was that, or just totally give up working on Fabrik. It seems that I simply cannot interact with certain people, they are literally bad for my health and wellbeing. although Bauer is the first of these people I've ever come across in the Fabrik world.

I do still appreciate the work he puts in, and will fix any bugs he reports which get passed on to me by other folk. But I pretty much never open a thread he's started these days, because it's odds-on I'll see something that just makes me wonder why I do open my browser in the morning, and don't just go work as a Walmart Greeter.

And FYI, yes, I spent the weekend working on 3.1 issues, to the tune of about 18 hours, I think.

-- hugh

 

[Sophist]

Yes - Bauer does himself no favours by taking the attitude he does. And its a pity really because he has the technical skills that would allow him to contribute if only his attitude was not so selfish / insulting, and if he contributed as much as he whinged, a lot of the bugs would be fixed by now. Ah well, nowt as strange as folks. Or as Bauer would put it, "Go figure!"

 

[Bauer]

Paul,

And now you know why I ignore certain threads, unless they consist of a simple "here's a bug, here's the symptom / error msg". I'm not going to read through pages of rant to find a nugget of actual bug report.

You seem to be at the point I was with Bauer a year ago. I had to give up interacting with him, as (seriously) it was messing with my blood pressure and my head. I also told him that obviously Fabrik wasn't a fit with his requirements / expectations, I couldn't provide him with support any more due to "irreconcilable differences", that he'd upset all of our Wiling Volunteers who help out and were no longer prepared to help him (which he appears now to have done with you as well), and he really needed to go and find some other solution / product.

I went from looking forward to work every day, seeing what new and interesting challenges awaited me in forum support that day, to dreading opening my browser in the morning, because it meant more of the same nastyness. Just wasn't worth it, so I quit reading anything he posts. Probably means I miss a lot of bug reports, but it was that, or just totally give up working on Fabrik. It seems that I simply cannot interact with certain people, they are literally bad for my health and wellbeing. although Bauer is the first of these people I've ever come across in the Fabrik world.

I do still appreciate the work he puts in, and will fix any bugs he reports which get passed on to me by other folk. But I pretty much never open a thread he's started these days, because it's odds-on I'll see something that just makes me wonder why I do open my browser in the morning, and don't just go work as a Walmart Greeter.

And FYI, yes, I spent the weekend working on 3.1 issues, to the tune of about 18 hours, I think.

-- hugh

First off Hugh, my name is Phil not Paul - no idea where you got that from.

Second - So you too consider it wrong that I warned kissenger to stay away from using the latest github update until the bugs it introduced were resolved? I realized it was the weekend and suggested to kissenger that you were probably already aware and would be working on it in short order. Yet that too seems to have offended Sophist.

Third - I am only as congenial as the tone of the conversation started. Sophist started this one, not I. And to be quite honest I'm sick of hearing his 'fix it yourself' crap. And now I'm being told I am selfish? You have no idea how much of my time and effort I have contributed into helping make your product better for all - but because I won't go through the learning curve of github I should be scolded and criticized?

Fourth - What bothers me today is the same thing that bothered me a year ago when I had my run-ins with you and Rob. Mostly, that is the fact that you can't take criticism and refuse to acknowledge shortcomings and fix long-standing bugs in fabrik.

If you want to ignore my posts, that's your loss - but you will probably hear reports of new bugs from me sooner than anyone else in this community - because I have been using 'the latest and greatest' from fabrik as the core engine to a project - that I have been putting an easy 60-80 hours a week into - for over a year now.

I had my say in response to Sophist's usual Monday Morning burn (Mondays must not be good for him) and any storm it may have stirred up is all like water down a duck's back. I've got better things to do than get in another pissing match with anyone.

Some people should realize that my sarcasm is a form of humor and not intended to be taken personally. I cannot help that some people can be so thin-skinned.

 

[Sophist]

First off Hugh, my name is Phil not Paul - no idea where you got that from.

Phil, I guess we all realise by now that you believe that the whole world revolves around you. But funny enough, Phil, its not ALL ABOUT YOU!! You are not the only person in the universe. Hugh was writing to me - my name is Paul.

Second - So you too consider it wrong that I warned kissenger to stay away from using the latest github update until the bugs it introduced were resolved? I realized it was the weekend and suggested to kissenger that you were probably already aware and would be working on it in short order. Yet that too seems to have offended Sophist.

Funny how short your memory is. You said:

While you and the rest of the fabrik team were enjoying your weekend or ?holiday?, I was still working hard at my project.

The clear implication is that you think Rob and Hugh should be working weekends to fix your bugs for free. leaving everything else aside, they are entitled to a home life!!

I am only as congenial as the tone of the conversation started. Sophist started this one, not I.

People can read the thread and make their own mind up. In simple terms, you griped, I fixed.

And to be quite honest I'm sick of hearing his 'fix it yourself' crap.

Now you know how we feel having to listen to your constant gripes and put downs.

And now I'm being told I am selfish?

Would it help if I call you sanctimonious too?

You have no idea how much of my time and effort I have contributed into helping make your product better for all - but because I won't go through the learning curve of github I should be scolded and criticized?

I have offered several times to do the GitHub bit for you. So this is - to use your own language - crap!!

I think we all recognise that even just reporting bugs has value - but not when it comes with a whole heap of blame, demands, criticism etc.

What bothers me today is the same thing that bothered me a year ago when I had my run-ins with you and Rob. Mostly, that is the fact that you can't take criticism and refuse to acknowledge shortcomings and fix long-standing bugs in fabrik.

This is just untrue. In my discussions with Rob and Hugh they have been very forthcoming about the legacy issues and shortcomings.

However, IMO significant criticism is unreasonable considering the benefits that Rob and Hugh deliver for nothing, and I can't see why they need to take it. But nevertheless, in my experience (albeit short) they do listen to constructive criticism. Unlike some.

If you want to ignore my posts, that's your loss

That depends on where you are standing.

I had my say in response to Sophist's usual Monday Morning burn (Mondays must not be good for him)

Another insult.

I've got better things to do than get in another pissing match with anyone.

So why are you pissing now?

Some people should realize that my sarcasm is a form of humor and not intended to be taken personally.

Aside from being the lowest form of wit, sarcasm generally just doesn't work online. And even now that you have indicated that your intent was sarcasm, and I try to consider it that way, I still can't see it as sarcasm. Readers can judge for themselves whether you were genuinely trying to be sarcastic or whether this is simply a justification after the event.

I cannot help that some people can be so thin-skinned.

That's a really great line!! Truly great!! Someone feels that you have insulted them, but rather than apologise, you justify yourself by calling them thin-skinned. Again, I leave it to the reader to judge for themselves.

S

P.S. Your unapologetic crap has just pushed me over the ignore event horizon. So long.